tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7610074516299275060.post6899411729152537696..comments2024-01-21T11:18:54.087-05:00Comments on Lost in the Movies: Some Came Running & Kiss Me DeadlyJoel Bockohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11238338958380683893noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7610074516299275060.post-33976149040799516132008-12-24T15:42:00.000-05:002008-12-24T15:42:00.000-05:00MovieMan,I think Towne eventually recanted and cla...MovieMan,<BR/><BR/>I think Towne eventually recanted and claimed that Polanski was right (albeit begrudgingly) but also the "incest as metaphor" self-annotation strikes to the heart of the difference between the Towne and the Polanski aesthetic (ie, the distant, social epic vs. the burrowing psychological portrait). Imagine if "Chinatown" had had the sweeping, grandiose self-importance of, say, "The Godfather" (on which Towne worked as a script doctor). Polanski, who might very well be an authentic pervert (not that I want to get into another debate about that) was the perfect director for the job.<BR/><BR/>But, more than the municipal greed aspect, I like (well, "like" is maybe not the word...) the haunting ending of "Chinatown" because the incest doesn't HAVE to be a metaphor for anything -- we discover the plot to be a centripetal whirlpool at that moment of revelation, not with purloined water at the center but grotesquely purloined innocence. You could, obviously, understand them as mirror images, but I'm also interested in the way that Polanski uses incest to contort noir traditions -- it's almost like the movie is chastising us for every gunmoll/gumshoe flick we ever relished. We follow the same trail of crumb clues that Jake Gittes does, rather than inhabiting Evelyn's mind (as we did with the female protagonist of "Repulsion" and "Rosemary's Baby") and feel the tantalizing grainy granules turn into hot bubbles of poison on our tongues. It's a noir that coaxes us in only to appall and shock us; this holds true no matter HOW you look at the ending (ie, an evil, manipulative hand over LA, or Evelyn's daughter/sister). What the viewer feels at the ending is the perplexing form of satisfaction offered in film outside Buñuel. <BR/><BR/>btw, Happy Holidays to all, and any universe where I can spend Xmas eve discussing cinematic rape on a blog must be the correct one for me.Joseph "Jon" Lanthierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00826623899121215596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7610074516299275060.post-85105473552033182732008-12-24T12:41:00.000-05:002008-12-24T12:41:00.000-05:00Jon, I actually have a problem with Chinatown on t...Jon, I actually have a problem with Chinatown on that subject too, or rather, not Chinatown, but the way it's been described over the year, particularly by Robert Towne. The film itself, actually, I think hits the nail on the head in the way in which it weaves together the political and sexual themes, particularly in Polanski's sour ending.<BR/><BR/>But Towne, who constantly criticizes Polanski's revision of the screenplay, has also often made the incest subplot sound merely like a clever corollary to the "larger" theme of "raping" the community - as if Evelyn's trauma was merely a clever metaphor for her father's even more evil deeds.<BR/><BR/>I think this trivializes the theme of incest, and I think Polanski was right to focus on this crime in his conclusion; in other words, Towne apparently wanted to use incest as a prism through which to look at corruption, whereas Polanski couples the two, and the emphasis of the final scene seems to bring more horror to bear on the incest theme.Joel Bockohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238338958380683893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7610074516299275060.post-21846281994242616662008-12-22T23:51:00.000-05:002008-12-22T23:51:00.000-05:00Here ya go, Movieman!... I should warn you, though...Here ya go, Movieman!... I should warn you, though, this isn't the most organized piece I've ever written...a few of the arguments I'm not even sure I totally buy myself, and at some level I think it works better as a prose poem. But, at the very the least I'm pretty sure the link between communism/nuclear holocaust and sexual violence is somewhat original...<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.brightlightsfilm.com/61/61slapadame.html" REL="nofollow">To Slap a Dame</A><BR/><BR/>As for your Twin Peaks pieces, I've been reading through them slowly (I recently re-watched the show with my wife in sequence) and they're uniformly trenchant. I don't necessarily disagree with the moral problems re: "Fire Walk With Me," either (although I had plenty of aesthetic problems with the movie as well). In some ways it's not a fair comparison, but juxtapose "Fire Walk With Me" with say, "Chinatown," which is structured around a similar act of brutality (I also mention "Chinatown" in my piece above). But Polanski and Towne made incest the twist rather than the trajectory -- and it's the greatest twist of all time, a chillingly symbolic, not to mention mythic, freefall drop off the noir precipice. Lynch's goal, on the other hand, is to make us actually undergo the hell of Laura Palmer. It's an experience worth having for the sake of empathizing with the "victim" of Laura's character, but in a way I felt like it was belittling to rape as a serious social issue, too. However, this problem didn't exist in the series, where we were only teased, rather than bludgeoned, with these horrific details.<BR/><BR/>Oh, and sorry for writing such long comments...concise conversation was never my forté.Joseph "Jon" Lanthierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00826623899121215596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7610074516299275060.post-3762208824821108022008-12-22T23:20:00.000-05:002008-12-22T23:20:00.000-05:00Jon,Do you have a link up for that particular essa...Jon,<BR/><BR/>Do you have a link up for that particular essay. I don't have to say I don't really see it, but that's all the more reason to read your piece.<BR/><BR/>As for the use of "Manhattan Project", other historical signifiers, etc. I have a fascination with the confluence of the concrete/historical and the pyschological/metaphysical...rather than seeing the mystery reduced to a historical context, I see it as the historical context getting a more mysterious, almost mystical underpinning. I also appreciate the kind of rootless, existential horror you bring up - both approaches have their place and their appeal, I think. You should look into my Fire Walk With me review though - that was one spot where I actually had some problems with the way the mystical, supernatural elements co-existed with the themes of incest and rape. It was more of a moral problem than an aesthetic one, though, because that film was one of the most powerful I've ever seen.Joel Bockohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238338958380683893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7610074516299275060.post-51976331330929207252008-12-22T19:51:00.000-05:002008-12-22T19:51:00.000-05:00Great post...although I am ashamed to admit I have...Great post...although I am ashamed to admit I haven't yet seen "Some Came Running".<BR/><BR/><I>The delight of the film is when its unstable detective narrative encounters elements which can't be digested and the movie bursts open.</I><BR/><BR/>I have this half-formed theory that the above point has been the operative thrust behind noir since the 50's -- when the genre that started with seedy criminals spontaneously re-connected with its German Expressionism roots (ie, dreamy horror). I hadn't yet seen Aldrich when I wrote a lengthy piece a while back connecting the Red Scare with the unthinkable atrocity of rape/incest, but I think I missed an opportunity. Good noir seems to draw us into those unconscious fears and desires that typically spell annihilation (which is why a woman opens the nuclear whatsit). The only thing I found myself wishing at the end of "Kiss Me Deadly" is that the cubic box COULDN'T be explained by phrases like "Los Alamos" or "Manhattan Project". We're still afraid of the bomb today, but we understand it all too well -- the whatsit has lost some of its mystic power via enlightenment. The best ghostly contraptions are shrouded in menacing mystery: like the creamed corn in "Twin Peaks" or the triangular key in "Mulholland Drive". It's the unknown that chills me, personally.Joseph "Jon" Lanthierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00826623899121215596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7610074516299275060.post-42148311357266137342008-12-22T14:59:00.000-05:002008-12-22T14:59:00.000-05:00Yes, oddly enough I noticed it watching Lost Highw...Yes, oddly enough I noticed it watching Lost Highway but forgot about it when re-watching Kiss Me Deadly.<BR/><BR/>And while we're on the subject of Lynch, the tone of Wicker Man occasionally reminded me of Lynch to. I wander if it's a case of conscious emulation or just "great minds think alike..."Joel Bockohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238338958380683893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7610074516299275060.post-4257157251794921102008-12-22T12:32:00.000-05:002008-12-22T12:32:00.000-05:00manwithoutastar, besides the facts you mention, fa...manwithoutastar, besides the facts you mention, fairs/carnivals/amusement parks are just great, cinematic locations - they always look good on film.<BR/><BR/>As for your blog, I'll definitely link it up - I checked it out the other day, and it looked really interesting. There a lot of blogs I need to add to my blogroll but there's already so many great ones to follow, sometimes I lose track and my "fellow travelers" tend to stay the same for a while.Joel Bockohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11238338958380683893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7610074516299275060.post-62736601762883231322008-12-22T12:16:00.000-05:002008-12-22T12:16:00.000-05:00I really love both if these films - my favourite M...I really love both if these films - my favourite Minnelli and one of my favourite noirs.. And would never have though to link them together! Also, of course Strangers on a Train does the same thing- again a vast expanse of water and here a carousel that spins faster and faster out of control. And Hitch was a master of sensory cinema.. <BR/><BR/>Fairground rides often appear in movies and often seem metaphorical of cinema in some way of other - entertainment, modernity, unrelenting narrative etc. The most obvious might be Rene Clair's Entr'acte. Fritz Lang's Liliom uses the carousel this way too.<BR/><BR/>If you have time maybe you might take a look at my site, which you can get to by clicking my name (as I'm sure you're aware..) I like your site very much and have linked to it! If you like mine maybe you'd consider linking back?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com